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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Very true, however one thing that I have not
mentioned is the fact that my games do not have any graphics so I have to do no
rendering there. My games are built especially for the blind and visually
impaired, and so they are entirely based on sound. This means that a lot of the
processing which would normally go to graphics rendering is taken away, so I can
afford to lower the time a little bit I believe. I may be mistaken certainly,
but it's my primary guess.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Kind regards,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Philip Bennefall</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=little.coding.fox@gmail.com
href="mailto:little.coding.fox@gmail.com">Nuno Silva</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=enet-discuss@cubik.org
href="mailto:enet-discuss@cubik.org">Discussion of the ENet library</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, October 28, 2009 9:28
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [ENet-discuss] Reliable
packets and data sending approaches</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Also consider the CPU cycles you have to use for your game
simulation. Going at 60 packets per second would equal 16ms to do the
simulation, send the packets, and potentially for them to arrive at the
destination. That's a very small ammount of time, especially for more complex
games like RTSs.<BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 7:10 PM, Chris Jurney <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:jurney@gmail.com">jurney@gmail.com</A>></SPAN>
wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">When
you're picking your update rate, keep in mind users' up channel
limitations. 128kbit is a very common cap in Internetland. I
think the size of an unreliable eNet header (~32 bytes) + UDP (8 bytes) + IP
(20 bytes) gives you a minimum packet size of roughly 60
bytes.<BR><BR>Upstream header overhead = 60 byte header * rate * 8
bits/packet<BR><BR>If you send at 60/s, you'll have at least 29kbit of
packet overhead before you send your first byte of payload. If you're
on a console, that overhead potentially goes up with their wrapper as
well.<BR><BR>(I'm not 100% sure of my size number for eNet because we have
fiddled with headers a bit)<BR><FONT color=#888888><BR>Chris</FONT>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=h5><BR><BR>----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee Salzman"
<<A href="mailto:lsalzman1@cox.net"
target=_blank>lsalzman1@cox.net</A>><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">
<DIV>To: "Discussion of the ENet library" <<A
href="mailto:enet-discuss@cubik.org"
target=_blank>enet-discuss@cubik.org</A>><BR></DIV>Sent: Tuesday,
October 27, 2009 2:27 PM
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR>Subject: Re: [ENet-discuss] Reliable packets and data sending
approaches<BR><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">Don't
rely on the throttle. Choose a reasonable rate to begin with.<BR>20-30
times a second is probably fair. Keep in mind that on average
an<BR>event will occur half-way between an interval, so 20 Hz does
not<BR>correspond to 50 ms latency, but rather on average more like 25
ms, and<BR>by the time you get to 30 Hz your average latency is like 16
ms. Taking<BR>that up to 50 Hz, and your average latency is only about
10 ms, so<BR>you're making huge jumps in bandwidth usage for very
marginal benefits.<BR><BR>Lee<BR><BR>Philip Bennefall wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">I
understand what you're saying there. But say then that I start at
a<BR>rate of 50 per second, and then let ENet's dynamic throttle take
it<BR>down if necessary? Would that be a safe approach? It would allow
for<BR>50 packets a second in ideal network conditions such as a lan
or two<BR>super connections, and automatically adapt itself to
other<BR>circumstances. What do you think?<BR><BR>Kind
regards,<BR><BR>Philip Bennefall<BR><BR> ----- Original
Message -----<BR> *From:* Nuno Silva <mailto:<A
href="mailto:little.coding.fox@gmail.com"
target=_blank>little.coding.fox@gmail.com</A>><BR>
*To:* Discussion of the ENet library <mailto:<A
href="mailto:enet-discuss@cubik.org"
target=_blank>enet-discuss@cubik.org</A>><BR> *Sent:*
Tuesday, October 27, 2009 8:04 AM<BR> *Subject:* Re:
[ENet-discuss] Reliable packets and data sending<BR>
approaches<BR><BR> 60 times per second would
probably be overkill on most<BR> connections, considering
you send packets every 16ms, which IMHO<BR> may be a bit
too fast even for TCP. Do notice that i'm no<BR>
networking expert, but having a guy from the other side of
the<BR> world send/receive packets every 16ms instead of
the usual 50ms<BR> will need a pretty darn good
connection.<BR><BR> On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 3:47 AM,
Philip Bennefall<BR> <<A
href="mailto:philip@pbsoundscape.net"
target=_blank>philip@pbsoundscape.net</A> <mailto:<A
href="mailto:philip@pbsoundscape.net"
target=_blank>philip@pbsoundscape.net</A>>> wrote:<BR><BR>
Lee,<BR><BR> Would it be
acceptable to send small packets out, say 60 times<BR>
a second or so? Will ENet handle it if it getst oo
much?<BR><BR> Kind regards,<BR><BR>
Philip Bennefall<BR>
----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee Salzman"<BR>
<<A href="mailto:lsalzman1@cox.net"
target=_blank>lsalzman1@cox.net</A> <mailto:<A
href="mailto:lsalzman1@cox.net"
target=_blank>lsalzman1@cox.net</A>>><BR>
To: "Discussion of the ENet library" <<A
href="mailto:enet-discuss@cubik.org"
target=_blank>enet-discuss@cubik.org</A><BR>
<mailto:<A href="mailto:enet-discuss@cubik.org"
target=_blank>enet-discuss@cubik.org</A>>><BR>
Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 4:00 AM<BR><BR>
Subject: Re: [ENet-discuss] Reliable packets and
data sending<BR>
approaches<BR><BR><BR>
Mihai is mistaken. Sauerbraten only sends 30 times a<BR>
second. Events like<BR>
gun shots are sent reliably. Only position
data for<BR> players is
sent<BR>
unreliably.<BR><BR>
Lee<BR><BR> Philip
Bennefall wrote:<BR><BR>
So what is the game frame rate in sauerbraten?
How<BR> often
does it end<BR>
up sending updates, how many times a second?<BR><BR>
Kind
regards,<BR><BR>
Philip Bennefall<BR><BR><BR>
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